Spinone Italiano vs Bisben - Breed Comparison | MyDogBreeds

This Italian breed has an ancient blood line tracing all the back to 500 BC. Originally bred to hunt, he is today a friendly, alert and loyal companion. He is intelligent enough to do any job you give him. The Spinone is thought to be one of the oldest gun dogs ever, but it is not entirely clear that he came from Italy. There are some who think he may have come from somewhere in these European countries – Italy, Greece, France, Celtic Ireland, Spain or Russia. However, most believe the breed came from Italy in the Piedmont area.

The most common thinking is that he is a descendent of the Spanish Pointer and/or the Russian Setter. One other theory is that setters from Greece were brought to the Roman Empire and crossed with a variety of Italian dog to make the coarse haired Spinone we see today. Then the French put in their claim that the breed is a cross of many French pointers.

The theory that counts might just belong to the Italians who believe the ancestor to the Spinone includes the German Wirehaired Pointer, the Pudelpointer and the Wirehaired Pointer. It was not until the 19th century that the name Spinone was officially given to the breed.

Before that it might have been known as a Spinoso and named after a thorn bus in Italy called the Spino. This bush was so thick and sharp that small prey animals learned to hide under it because the predators could not get through it. The Spinone however was able to fight through the briars with its thick, coarse hair and tough skin.

The breed almost became extinct during the second world war as before and after the hunters in Italy had started to use other breeds for hunting. Breeders also began to cross the Spinone with wire hairs like German Wirehaired Pointer, the Wirehaired Pointing Griffon and the Boulet.

The most popular hunting dog in Italy today is the Bracco Italiano while the Spinone is still used for hunting.

There is a lot of mystery surrounding this large herding dog said to come out of the Himalaya Mountains of Asia. The belief is that sheepdogs were crossed with wolves toward the end of the 18th century, but his origin is basically unknown. They are both herding dogs and guard dogs. Others theorize that rather than a wolf, the breed arose from the Mastif family. Still others claim that the Bisben is not a breed at all but rather a “landrace”. A landrace is an animal group that is only found to exist in the local area or is bred locally for a specific reason, while a breed is developed intentionally and from a select purebred with pedigree. The Bisben may be a landrace since it is very popular in India but hardly known anywhere else. What is known is that the Brisben was in existence at the end of the 1700’s and its job was to protect and herd livestock. There are three main theories about the origin of the Bisben. They are, in no particular order:

1. The Bisben was developed by mixing several different Himalayan and Indian Sheepdogs with wolves. The wolf population in the Himalayas and in India live in very close proximity to dogs and people and this population is quite large. These Tibetan and Indian wolves are known to be smaller, more comfortable with people and less aggressive than wolves from other parts of the world.

2. The Bisben was developed by mixing local sheep herding dogs with the Tibetan Mastiff. This gave the breed its protective nature and its large size according to this theory.

3. The Bisben was developed by mixing local dogs with the ones the British, Portuguese and French imported to the India subcontinent.

There is a fourth theory as well and it combines all three of these, supposing that the Bisben is a product of crossing local dogs with wolves, Tibetan Mastiffs and European dogs.

Regardless of their origins, the Bisben grew into one of the most respected animals in the Southern Himalayas. Their assistance to the shepherds of the area was unquestioned and irreplaceable. They were touch enough to herd flocks of goats or sheep across several treacherous and unstable mountain passes. The environment in which these dogs worked when herding is one of the harshest environments on the face of the earth. Temperatures were dangerously cold, altitudes dangerously high and the terrain just plain dangerous. Many deadly large predators live there as well. This included tigers, Asiatic black bears, golden eagles, Himalayan brown bears, snow leopards, fox, dholes, wolves, and small cats. The Bisben had to be able to fight off all of these predators. In addition to these herding and protecting duties, the Bisben was also known throughout the region as an excellent hunting dog. They are capable to this day of hunting large prey such as antelope or deer. They are equally comfortable hunting alone or in a pack. He has grown into one of the most popular hunting dogs in all of India.

The Himalayas, being so rugged and treacherous, were inaccessible to most of India for many centuries and the Brisben was unknown as well. Through the British imperialist expansion across all of the Indian subcontinent, the lowlands people were connected to the highlands and mountain people for the first time. This also meant that the Brisben was no longer unknown. The entire country began to appreciate the dog for its protection and herding of livestock, as well as a companion animal who would protect its owner and family as well. As India continues to grow the popularity of the Brisben grows as well and its numbers increase regularly. The breed, if it is a breed, remains an Indian secret. They have migrated to the countries around India, but their number are small. It is only in India that they are revered and prosper. They are not present in any great numbers in Europe, North America, Japan, or most of Asia.

Whether or not the Bisben becomes a recognized breed depends upon those who own and fancy them. Most Bisbens are bred to only other Bisbens in an effort to purify the breed. However, few dogs have pedigrees and the practice of breeding the Brisben to other breeds and mixed breed to acquire specific characteristics continues to this day. It is unlikely that the Bisben will ever be a purebred dog. It is quite variable in how it looks depending upon what the breeding line of the individual dog actually is. Does it look like a wolf? Does it look like a larger version of a local or European dog? There will always be these questions around the Bisben. Is it a breed or a landrace?

The breed is made up of strong, solid and muscled dogs that have an almost square build. His legs are made to travel any terrain and his head is long with an occipital that is pronounced and unique to the Spinone. They are said to have “human appearing eyes”, with a docked tail in countries allowing it and webbed paws.

Shorter hair covers their feet, head, legs, muzzle and ears. They have longer hair on their eyebrows and it is stiff, with soft hair on the muzzle and cheeks with a beard and mustache. It is a single coated dog though the coat is rough. They should have skin, lips, nose, and pads in colors that coordinate with their coats. For white dog it is a red-orange color, brown in dogs that are roan colored and dark red-orange in the orange and white colored dog.

As mentioned in the previous section the appearance of the Brisban can vary greatly from one dog to another based on the individual dogs’ ancestry. Breed or landrace, the Brisban breeding line is not very pure. Therefore, appearance can vary greatly from what is described here and there is no standard by which to measure the Brisban. Most are distinctly large animals, being as tall as the European mountain dogs – the Newfoundland or the Bernese Mountain Dog, Swiss Mountain Dog. St. Bernard and Great Pyrenees. Reports are that it is perhaps the largest dog in India. At least it is one of the largest dogs in India. The Bisben is said by some to be a large, bulky, husky dog while others claim it to be tall and athletic, leaner than the Mastiff bred. Again, there is disagreement on the size and shape of the Bisben’s head with some claiming it is massively square like a Mastiff while others say the head is long and like that of a wolf not a Mastiff. The long hair of the Bisben and its confusing heritage may be the cause. They are most often black but might also be found to be tricolor, tan and “wolf-color” or brown, grey, shades of sable and black. No matter how it looks, this is a dog that was designed to work in the harshest conditions known and their physical appearance should make that abundantly clear.

1.Children friendliness – yes they live kids.

2.Special talents – Digging and running.

3.Adaptability – Young dogs need a lot of attention but they don’t need a lot of space. The young dogs are energetic while the adult dogs are laid-back. They need exercise every day and at least a small back yard.

4.Learning ability – good/stubborn/intelligent.

The Bisben was so important to the people of the Indian subcontinent because of her temperament. He is a loyal, productive and courageous worker who took care of her flocks, her family and her pack. They are devoted to their family and if raised with children will care for them as well. He is suspicious of strangers. They are territorial and great watchdogs. They can take on any large challenger if need be to protect what they consider to be theirs. They can be highly dog aggressive and must be socialized as a puppy. Do not mix them with strange, unknown animals as the Bisben might attempt to kill them. If he sees them as his “pack” he will love and protect them, but not if he does not know them. Take as much time as you need to introduce him to a new animal and do not leave them unsupervised. They are not easy to train as they are stubborn, intelligent, want to be dominant and is a problem solver. If he doesn’t want to learn something forget it – he won’t. You can still train them. It just takes time and patience.

This is an ancient breed with not a lot of documented genetic issues, but it does have one deadly condition.

• Cerebellar ataxia (CA) is inherited and hits the puppies. Because it is a recessive gene both the mother and father must carry it for the puppy to inherit it. This makes it less likely than it would be otherwise. Puppies with the condition do not live more than a year. Since it is a genetic problem there is now a test for it that identifies carriers at a 95% accuracy rate.

• Like many other large breed dogs, they are susceptible to hip dysplasia. This can cause arthritis and/or lameness. There are now hip replacement surgeries available for this condition.

• Bloat is again common in large dogs and you need to watch for it with the Spinone. It can be deadly if not treated immediately. Let your dog rest quietly after eating. Do not let her exercise or play energetically after eating.

Because he is not a purebred and is probably a land range, there have not been a lot of health studies done and written up on the Brisban. It is believed that the Bisben is for all practical purposes a healthy working dog. As long as the breeding practices are not compromised it should remain a healthy line. It is bred for temperament and work not for appearance and showmanship. Some problems that plague large dogs have been noted in the Bisben. These conditions include hip and elbow dysplasia; optical issues such as Entropion, Ectropion and cataracts; ear infections; and Demadex and Demodectic mange. Most of these conditions can be tested for either in DNA or early in a pup’s life and should be tested for by the breeder before a puppy is sold

1Feeding the puppy – feed a high quality dog food for puppies of large breeds. Feed 3-4x day but don’t overfeed or let him exercise after eating even as a puppy.

2.Feeding the adult - feed a high quality dog food for large breeds. Feed 1-2X day but don’t overfeed or let him exercise after eating.

3.Points for Good Health – Active and strong

4. Games and Exercises – The Spinone is an active breed, but not a fast dog. In fact, they like to travel at a trot so it becomes a great dog for jogging or running with. They love to jump, track, hunt, hike. They do well with agility, retrieving, flyball, carting, being a therapy dog, a rescue dog and a watchdog.

The Bisben is a large working dog that needs a lot of calories if you are keeping him busy. Do not let him get overweight. The Bisben should not be free fed but rather given two controlled portion meals per day.

Health issues

As previously mentioned, the Bison was developed with the harshest of conditions in mind and long hours of hard work. It is a healthy breed that is however prone to any of the issues that any large dog is prone to including dysplasia and mange and well as optical issues.

Exercise and games

The Bisben needs a lot of exercise as the breed is developed for hard work. Walks are essential but if you have more than one dog, pack walks are even better and pack time at the dog park or in a fenced yard is great. The Bison was bred to hunt in packs as well as alone and they love to play in packs. In any respect they need at least an hour of strong exercise daily. If they don’t get enough exercise, they can become aggressive, destructive and fearful. This could result in destructive activity, barking and excess excitability. They are not very happy in the city and thrive in the countryside.